Category: Let's talk
Hi there,
After posting on the topic about blind school searching on the rant board, I am really curious about the population of students who have went through blind schooling throughout their lives.
If you or anyone you know have been through blind schooling all their lives, from pre-school to graduating high-school and/or going through blind college, I am interested to know the following:
1. How many have found a decent paying job?
A. Enough to pay bills.
B. After bills, pay for things you want.
C. After buying what you want, enough to save for emergencies.
2. Do you have your own place?
A. One without your parents preferably.
B. Without a person doing everything for you, be it siblings, etc.
C. One that you can manage on your own(paying rent/mortgage/clean(or pay someone to clean for you? hehehe))
3. Be able to travel independently.
A. Take the bus/metro/cab/paratransit(though i will never trust it to take me to any job on time :P).
B. Fly independently.
C. go somewhere new and strange on your own.
4. Provide your own meals.
a. Cook on your own.
or
B. High a chef to cook for you.
or
C. Eat out all the time if you got the money.
5. Enjoy life. Life to me is not spending all day on the phone with someone simply because you feel that you don't have a choice; or staying inside cause you are afraid to go out due to your blindness. Have a sense of adventure, go somewhere, do something, the world is much bigger then the 4 walls you've grown up to know and may or may not love.
This is not meant to be a survey, but an understanding of how the "blind" education that you have been exposed to all your life. How has it served you in life? As someone who has been through public schooling all my life, I am not privied to the full impact of what a blind institution does to someone mentally, socially, physically, and emotionally. From what I have gathered, the "blind school" here in California has really dumbed down the corriculum because they felt that a blind person is incapable of handling the riggorness of college prep classes. Then after "graduating", they are then expected to undertake classes that are too much for them in colleges for which the "blind schools" have never prepared them.
Going through public schooling really gave me the courage and the attitude of "just go and do it". If I did not have such attitudes, I would not have had the experience that really enriched my life. I see other blind folks who do travel all over the country and internationally, but of those, I mostly see them to attend again a "blind social venue"(nfb conventions, acb conventions, CSUN, CTVEH, etc). is that really getting to know the "world"? *shrug* Then again, those conventions may serve as a vehicle for blind folk to dive in to the sighted community to experience what its like outside of their shell. *ponder*
So, how is life after "blind schooling"?
Hi,
I've only been in a blind school for 3 years, but I think I can tell you a little bit. You're right when you say that blind schools don't prepare you for the real world. I went there to escape the hell I went through in public school, but honestly, if I'd stayed there, I would have been given even more of a taste of what the sighted world is. I have a pretty good idea, but I feel like I've lost "touch" with sighted people if that makes sense. I don't have the confidence anymore to walk up to a sighted person and start talking to them. I think I'm not good enough for them. I don't know if that's because I've been going to a blind school or because of previous experiences I've had, or maybe it's both. Where I grew up, there are a lot of rednecks and closed-minded people. I got made fun of a lot. Therefore I didn't have many friends. But I knew how to relate to sighted people and what to expect from them. Now I know how difficult it will be to get a job. And, you probably won't believe this, but I would much rather have a challenging load of schoolwork than the crap I get now. At the school I go to, we might get homework in 1 class, which is 1 little worksheet that I could've done in 6th grade. Now, I realize I may be more intelligent than most of the people I go to school with (not to brag or anything like that, but because most of them have multiple disabilities). I see most of the people just sitting back, relaxing, and enjoying a free, easy ride. I feel sorry for them, because reality is gonna jump up and bite them in the ass when they graduate. In fact, I should've graduated this year, but these stupid people said I have to stay an extra year because I failed 2 classes in 9th grade (due to me not giving a shit) but technically I have enough credits to graduate. So you know what I'll have to do? They're putting me in a program called "school to work." Most people in this so-called "training program" go to Pizza Hut and fold boxes. Oh wow, what great prospects they have. I have considered dropping out many times due to my lack of motivation, boredom, and isolation. A lot of the teachers don't like me because I think outside the box and am not afraid to speak up when they do something stupid, which causes them to talk about me. Where I go, the teachers have no respect. They will sit there (there's usually a teacher and an aide in the classroom) and gossip about students. Once I confronted a couple of them about it and they acted all apologetic, but they've treated me like shit every day since. They just don't like to be told how it is.
You basically get treated like a baby and sheltered from the real world, just like you said. I wouldn't wish a blind school on anybody. It might seem good at first, and maybe that's just how mine is, maybe there are actually good ones out there, but I really do feel sorry for the people who have been there all their lives because they don't know any better. You need real world experience if you're gonna go anywhere in life. Right now I know I'm lacking in it but I'm hoping to change that. I will not be some pathetic sitting-on-my-ass-all-day-doing-nothing bum like this one girl I know who I used to be friends with. She is so dependent on other people it's sickening. She still comes to every event at our school (we have an alumni program) because she has nothing better to do. She won't let go. This might be an extreme example, but that's what a blind school can do to you if you go there all your life. I think they also subtly teach you to feel bad about your blindness. In the sighted world, you have to struggle to get by, to fit in. In the blind community, it's so easy to sit back and bitch about your blindness and feel sorry for yourself that it can become a self-consuming habit. My ex-boyfriend was like that. He hated himself for being blind. He hated himself for a whole other list of reasons too, but that was the main one. That got old in a hell of a hurry having to listen to that. Sorry if that sounds insensitive, but I was raised to accept my blindness and not be ashamed of it. I thank my mom for that. Anyway, I'd be interested, since I've revived this topic, to see if anybody else has an opinion on the issues I've presented, since it didn't get any responses last time.
Let me confirm one statement I made, while I'm thinking of it. I said that I wouldn't wish a blind school on anyone. However, if you have no prospects anyway, like if you're also severely mentally or physically handicapped, then that type of setting is beneficial. But for normal, functionint blind people, it's a joke. All it does is make you feel like you're no longer a normal part of society. But then again I shouldn't speak for everyone on something like that, I'll just say that that's how I feel after being in one for 3 years.
Hi, I went to blind school all my life from primary school to High school and then a college for th blind. However during blind chool in high school we used to go to a sighted high school. Mos people were frightened of the mainstrem school including myself. But I realise now it was to get us used to the sighted world. Well it didn't work for me. for 5 years I went to a college which has a unit for blind people. I was in hat for 2 years. Then tried soe mainstream courses but failed in it. They threw me out because of a panick attac. Now I am going to try a new course calld Employ Ability in my local college not the last one. This college to has disabled unit and that's where I will be doing this Employ ability course. For years I was frightened of sight people and even partuallysighted. Not now though. All though I still find some people on't know what to do with disabled people. Of course there will be people who haven't com accros disabled people. This Employ ability course will hopefully help me to get a job.
I have to agree with some of what screaming turtle had to say. I went to a residential school k through 12. I went to public school for some classes in my junior and senior years. I went to a community college, and university for undergraduate and graduate degrees. Granted, this was years ago when schools for the blind primarilly only served individuals who were blind or partially sighted. I do think though, that a school for the blind has the facilities and potentially the faculty to teach blindness skills that can't be realistically taught in public school settings. As someone who works in the rehab system, I've seen examples where the public school system worked well, and times when it didn't. The same can be said for residential schools. If I were growing up now, I'd probably want to go to public school and do the school for the blind thing in the summer, which is what we do in our state.
Good topic. Thanks for posting.
Lou
I went to school from a different country. I was mainstream most of the time from kindergarten up to high school. I didn’t get any accommodations nor knew that they existed. The only thing I got was an extra time in exams, but that’s about it. I found out about all the accommodations for the blind and visualy impaired when I went here which was five years ago. I continued my junior and senior year of high school here, but all of my classes were regular classes. I forced my counselor to schedule all my classes and make it into regular classes. I even took Chemistry and Biology in high school and managed to pull out a B. It was not hard at all. I love science. I took general science, geology, and environmental science, but it was not that hard. I took all the classes that were required and graduated from high school. I didn’t go through the special education program at my high school because I didn’t like the way they treated their students. They treated their students like they were all stupid and they did not expect anything from them which makes it really irritating. I switched to a creative writing class from a modified PE class. Anyway, after I graduated there, I went to a community college and finished an Associates degree for three years. All of the classes I took in that college were regular classes and you may think I’m stubborn but I tried not to take advantage of their special services. In the long run, my work paid off because I was able to compete academically well with sighted people. I graduated with honors and now, I’m headed to a state university. The real world is really challenging. There is always a difference between saying things and doing things. If it comes to the real test of how much each individual got from their special education, I would say, not a lot because the teacher does not have high expectations for them and the teachers shelter their students too much. The work load is so easy that its not even suitable for your level of thinking and they always try to make accommodations even though the individual can do the task independently. I don’t like too much accommodations because it makes the student more lazy and dependent. If your talking about physically and mentally handicapped, then, its good to put those students to those blind schools, but if your just blind or visually impaired, go to a regular public or private school because you’ll learn more. I don’t like the impression that there’s a gap that separates blind and sighted people, this is a very close minded way of thinking. Were all here to study, not to judge each other’s appearance or physical disabilities. I don’t like it when people use their blindness an excuse for not doing anything with their lives. While your still young try to push your self beyond your limits and see how far you can go. If you have to force your counselor to put you to a regular class, then go ahead and do it because in the long run, being exposed to working with sighted people willl benefit you. I heard so many negative feadbacks from so many people who studied in blind schools. I know that these institutions mean well, but they have to upgrade their curriculum and they need to set their standards and expectations higher so that the students will be prepared to go to college and be successful in college. Another thing, I don’t know why people here complain about the number of classes they have. Me, when I was in the Philippines, I had ten classes every school year and our school years is divided to four quarters which leaves me with four quarterly exams. The classes there is more academically challenging than the classes here, so, don’t even try to complain about having six classes in high school because the work load here is much more easier compared to the amount of homework I get there.
Thanks a lot for posting this topic. I’m not criticizing the blind schools, I’m just posing some of the things that I dislike about it.
I went to school from a different country. I was mainstream most of the time from kindergarten up to high school. I didn’t get any accommodations nor knew that they existed. The only thing I got was an extra time in exams, but that’s about it. I found out about all the accommodations for the blind and visualy impaired when I went here which was five years ago. I continued my junior and senior year of high school here, but all of my classes were regular classes. I forced my counselor to schedule all my classes and make it into regular classes. I even took Chemistry and Biology in high school and managed to pull out a B. It was not hard at all. I love science. I took general science, geology, and environmental science, but it was not that hard. I took all the classes that were required and graduated from high school. I didn’t go through the special education program at my high school because I didn’t like the way they treated their students. They treated their students like they were all stupid and they did not expect anything from them which makes it really irritating. I switched to a creative writing class from a modified PE class. Anyway, after I graduated there, I went to a community college and finished an Associates degree for three years. All of the classes I took in that college were regular classes and you may think I’m stubborn but I tried not to take advantage of their special services. In the long run, my work paid off because I was able to compete academically well with sighted people. I graduated with honors and now, I’m headed to a state university. The real world is really challenging. There is always a difference between saying things and doing things. If it comes to the real test of how much each individual got from their special education, I would say, not a lot because the teacher does not have high expectations for them and the teachers shelter their students too much. The work load is so easy that its not even suitable for your level of thinking and they always try to make accommodations even though the individual can do the task independently. I don’t like too much accommodations because it makes the student more lazy and dependent. If your talking about physically and mentally handicapped, then, its good to put those students to those blind schools, but if your just blind or visually impaired, go to a regular public or private school because you’ll learn more. I don’t like the impression that there’s a gap that separates blind and sighted people, this is a very close minded way of thinking. Were all here to study, not to judge each other’s appearance or physical disabilities. I don’t like it when people use their blindness an excuse for not doing anything with their lives. While your still young try to push your self beyond your limits and see how far you can go. If you have to force your counselor to put you to a regular class, then go ahead and do it because in the long run, being exposed to working with sighted people willl benefit you. I heard so many negative feadbacks from so many people who studied in blind schools. I know that these institutions mean well, but they have to upgrade their curriculum and they need to set their standards and expectations higher so that the students will be prepared to go to college and be successful in college. Another thing, I don’t know why people here complain about the number of classes they have. Me, when I was in the Philippines, I had ten classes every school year and our school years is divided to four quarters which leaves me with four quarterly exams. The classes there is more academically challenging than the classes here, so, don’t even try to complain about having six classes in high school because the work load here is much more easier compared to the amount of homework I get there.
Thanks a lot for posting this topic. I’m not criticizing the blind schools, I’m just posing some of the things that I dislike about it.
Yeah, if I could do it all over again, I would've stayed in public high school. It just seems like it's not worth it to spend your high school career bored and out of touch with reality. I know a lot of people would think I'm crazy for saying that, but I believe people who go to blind schools are the ones who never do anything with their lives, therefore causing all these stereotypes that sighted people have about them, not to mention that the majority of us don't even have jobs and choose to be lazy. I say choose to be because I know that it's really hard for a blind person to get a job because so many people discriminate, but if you try hard enough, you'll find one. The girl who I mentioned in the other post got mad at me once for saying that. She said "it's so hard to get a job. You're the one who needs to wake up and realize that it won't come easy." Well, there's this thing called perseverance, and as a blind person you can't get anywhere without it. We have to struggle for everything we have. I'm probably coming off as harsh here, but it's the truth. In the real world things aren't going to be handed to you on a silver platter. That's why blind schools should make more of an effort to prepare you for the real world academically and socially.
The only thing I don't regret about going to a blind school is that I got training in independent skills that I otherwise probably wouldn't have had. But that's a pretty big price to pay for all the disadvantages I've had to go through. Like I said, perseverance probably would've paid off there too, because I know of a training center for the blind that has an adult program (I went to their summer program for teens last year) and it's excellent. So if I'd stayed in public school, sure, I would've been completely isolated because people around here are ignorant, but I'm starting to wonder if I was a coward for leaving. Is that how all sighted people are, ignorant and blatantly disrespectful to blind people? If so, then I should've just faced it because I'll have to for the rest of my life.
I've said it a million times before and I'll say it again: School for the blind or public school, either way it's what you make it. Yes, most schools for the blind dumb down the curriculum more than they should, and yes, too many people who grow up in such environments end up being very socially ignorant/awkward, but it's not all because of the school they attended. I went to a school for the blind from third grade to graduation, and I like to think I turned out just fine. Lol. My current situation has nothing to do with the education I received and also is not something I'm willing to go into on a public mesage board, and really the only reason I'm posting is because it always irritates me to see people going on about the horribleness and ineffectiveness of schools for the blind in general. Granted, I've only been exposed to one and I definitely wouldn't sing its praises or recommend it as a shining example of education, but if you really want to be educated and integrated into the sighted world, make it happen. I did. I do know quite a few people from the same school who are the stereotypical lazy jobless incompetent blindies, and probably will be until their caregivers die or kick them out or something, but they're only like that because they never cared enough to look beyond the limits set for them. And I think I learned a few things at the school I attended that I wouldn't have learned if I'd gone to a public school. I can see the importance of both ways, but it doesn't have to be an exclusive thing. You can go to a school for the blind and still live the life of a normal public school teenager, and you can also go to a public school and still get the training you should have if you're going to be successful in later life.
I'll get off my soapbox now.
Bravo Chelsea. You did, indeed, turn out okay. I experienced both types of schooling. I attended a blind school through the 8th grade and then went to a public high school. Sometimes I wish I had stayed at the blind school, and sometimes I wish I had attended public school all the way through. But I agree that too many blindies sit around and complain about blind schools and blame all their problems on the school.
Bravo Chelsea. You did, indeed, turn out okay. I experienced both types of schooling. I attended a blind school through the 8th grade and then went to a public high school. Sometimes I wish I had stayed at the blind school, and sometimes I wish I had attended public school all the way through. But I agree that too many blindies sit around and complain about blind schools and blame all their problems on the school.
I went to a public school until the seventh grade actually, it was half way through the seventh grade What i found odd is when i started at the missouri school for the blind they tested each new student to see if they could actually need to be moved back a grade or put forward one, i took my tests purely in braille except for the parts where they had to read to me then i had to wait three hours while they brailled the higher portions because no braille reading student had made it that high. I was moved to the eighth grade based on there tests what was up was the work was for there eighth grade what i did in fifth grade at my public school. Yes, i do live on my own, not near my parents this time, but i have a care giver come in through medicaid to cook andclean. I one day want to stop this service the problem i had at the blind schools i went too is one didnt even teach you to cook and one taught you to depend on the sighted person in the room to know when things were done.
I think the problem is that sited people think they know what is best for us, and how could they? they have never lived as a blind person. maybe a blind person should take over the running of a school for the blind, we'll see how much they clean up their act then.
Post 13, thank you. Sighted people shouldn't try to take over our lives just because they think we'll never amount to anything. Post 9: I can see your point, but I think it's about time someone stood up and said something about the way blind people are usually treated in these schools. I know it doesn't really do anything to complain on a public forum, but at least then people can get a variety of opinions, and if they had a better experience, then more power to them. Blind schools shouldn't be entirely blamed, it can be just as much the parents' fault, because sometimes parents send their kids to these schools so they don't have to deal with them, or have someone else teach them things that they don't want to for one reason or another. That's really sad, but I know a couple people (mostly in wheelchairs) that this holds true for. Well, if you're not responsible enough to be a parent, and you feel you have to pass it onto someone else, you are one pathetic person. OK, I'm done ranting now.
I think sometimes, it doesn’t even depend on the school whether you went to a public or private schools or schools for the blind, its up to the person to do what he thinks is right for him. Its up to him to persist and to initiate his needs to his teachers, but in other cases, if the teachers does not cooperate with the student then, that is a different story. Usually sighted people has a perceived stereotypical notion of how blind people are. On the other hand, blind people are the same way toward sighted people, so, in regards to getting along with sighted people, I think its just a matter of knowing how to understand and accept others. I don’t like the way the education system works. They associate physical disabilities such as being blind or being deaf to low mental abilities which puts those students in special education in lower level classes. Lower than their level of thinking, so if you think that your smarter than the classes your taking, then your probably right.
Like SKpoet, I've gone to public schooling all my life. I'll be a senior this year. My mom asked me at the beginning of this year, if I'd like to go to overbrook (the school for the blind here in pennsylvania). I seriously considered it, seeing as I knew dez, deth, jeff, frank, and a few others that go their, because they all went to the same summer program as me, but decided against it, because I'd heard so many bad things about it, and I'd been in public school all my life, y stop now?
I shall endevor to babble my way through a reply that, eventually, may convey some meaning to someone, I have too many thoughts on the subject.
I attended a blind support department during elementary school, 3 hours a day after classes (integrateed) ended, where theyhelped us with homework and taught us some skills, ADL, some O&M etc. After grade 10 through end of high school I got no assistance whatsoever and graduated with the third highest GPA of my school (out of about 150 students), at university I used the services of readers and note takers, even tutors, because I was taking vast amounts of material. I managed to graduate with decent GPA in two science majors (well, comp sci and economics, the former being a wimp science major and the second more of a mathematical social science).
After graduation I've enjoyed a spell of pretty good jobs with decent money, nothing crazy but enough for me to travel, own two apartments and, generally, do all right.
n retrospect I think blind support education was the way to go. I think being entirely independent and reinventing the wheel is not a clever use of our time, we also have to balance our independence from the ease of use if we reasonably use sighted assistance with certain things. It's a fine balance. I think I over relied on readers in university, I should rather have struggled through my math learning Nemith and perfecting my LaTex knowledge and now I'd be more independent for work related math, I am trying to make up for it now for sure. I think a reasonably smart and socially apt blind student still needs some support, someone has to teach them braille, ADL things, about screen readers, scanners etc and there should be a dedicated support center that helps with brailling and/or otherwise preparing texts for students, it's hard enough studying even if you don't need to spend half your time getting accessible material. I think though blind schools should offer more goal oriented and intensive courses in the summer, such as cooking, O&M, using public transport, perhaps, keeping your stuff organized and/or special topics in braille (Nemith and science, for instance, html and pdf documents, using Excel/Office as a blind user with screen reader of choice etc). Of course there are differing abilities and we cannot refuse our responsibility and choices, but as children we need some help and guidance, avoiding the pit falls of lazyness and excuses, getting over our fear of difficult subjects (I think math is just too scary for a lot of blind people and it's sad, there's a lot of good jobs in the sciences and they are truly fun, even if I'm not, by any means, particularly great at them). So I think there should be individual assessments for kids, may be a committee of one or two blind grown ups or grad students and 1 or sighted teachers in ADL or O&M, there also should be a dedicated support center (perhaps regional) that works with the schools to simplify the preparation of study material. We need to learn to interact with the sighted world and they with us, we can't shut ourselves from it and it's a loss to both communities I dare say, even if it, of course, has its share of frustrations along the way.
I've travelled extensively by planes across the U.S. and Europe and never had any problems, it's save, there's no question when one is getting off and employees and passengers are super nice and helpful, I've usually had friends of family meet me at theother end but in cases this was not the case I just got help flagging down a cab which would take me to where I wanted to go, or jumped on a train. I never found it very stressful really, in the general sense that one has to watch one's stuff, passport etc, but I never worried too much about getting lost or some such.
I've had fairly good luck with public transportation otherwise but I want to learn to use GPS and such to improve my skills and independence, I never liked street crossings although I'm still alive, which counts for something I suppose.
I've met a lot of very smart, very independent and admirable blind people, but I've met a huge share of less forunate or ambitious ones too, I'd like to see them get some motivation and support, for me I always had full family support and my blind teachers, with a few exceptions, were extremely supportive, one of them practically forced me to go apply for the high school I wanted instead of the one with support services department, and it was the best decission I ever made academically.
I think, in the area of ADL, very little teaching can get us a very long way. Cooking the basics is simple, learning to use the Foreman, using the oven (making a chicken in the oven is about as easy as it gets and it tastes great too, squirt some hot sauce up the beast's bottom, code it with a little oil and spices of your choice and throw the corpse in the oven, for 90 minutes at 500F or, if the heat scares you, put it in before turning it on, keep it in for 10 minutes longer and even turn the oven off and open it a bit letting it sit for 10 minutes after cooking), combine it with some frozen foods, microwavable rice, salads and you'll see that basic diet is in fact very achievable without much help or teaching. I think our ADL is, generally, not practical enough, we don't need to learn fancy stuff, we don'thave to make chocolate cake and make a tray of smorgesbord, we just need basic skills to cook stuff and experiment with basic spices.
That would conclude my useless ramblings for the night and I bid thee farewell, if thou art not asleep already after reading through this drivel.
cheers
-B
I went to the Tennessee school for the blind for my entire k-12 education, and will attempt to answer, as best I can, all these questions. After I gradguated from tSB, in 1991, I went to what used to be called Arkansas Enterprizes for the Blind, now called Lions World services for the blind. I took a word processing course there, and really wanted to do some sort of switchboarding, but that's when I discovered that my hearing simply wouldn't allow it, no matter how great the amplification devices. I never have found a job utilizing my word processing skills. When I first came to the center in Arkansas, my spelling was that of a third grader. When I left, it was a second year college level. Anyway, on to the answers...
1. How many have found a decent paying job?
I don't work now, but I did in the past. I was a production worker in a factory. At the time, I was happy enough to remain there because the money was very good. Being totally blind and almost deaf, I've always tried to find jobs which I could do without relying on my hearing because my ears will go blurry about twice a month or so and it takes them a couple of days to recover. It's totally random, so I can't know when it will happen. I did manage to do quite well for myself, as far as having what I wanted. If I saw something I wanted, I had no problems getting it. Now that I don't work, I have to be a bit more price concious.
2. Do you have your own place?
Yes, I moved about 3 hours away from my family by car. I always wanted to be independant. I'm from a small town, and there were no sidewalks, no way for me to get to a grocerystore, and no cabs or busses. I do my own cooking and cleaning. I've lived on my own for 15 years now.
3. Be able to travel independantly.
I was well trained in travel, both at tSB and in The center at Arkansas, LWSB. When I worked, I took the buss until they discontinued my bus route, and then I took cabs for a while, then finally began to use the paratransit system. I could have gone on using the busses if I could have heard well enough to transfer from one bus to the other, but with all the busses roaring around me, I couldn't hear what anyone said, or even traffic so I could not cross the streets Litterally, if there's much background noise, I can't hear well enough to tell what is happening more than 8 or 10 feet away, and that's an optomistic distance. I have flown by myself, when I went to get my guide dog, but that's the only time I've ever flown.
4. preparing your own meals.
I have no problem at all with this. I can use the stove, the oven, the electric skillet, the deep fryer, the pressure cooker, and am confident enough in the kitchen to try to learn how to use just about anything else. i love to bake, and most of the time, unless it's something I've never cooked before, I don't use recipes. I do love cooking, *grin*
5. Enjoy life.
I do enjoy life. I am a homebody, but if there's somewhere I'd like to go, I'll go, no problem. If I want to visit a friend in another state, I have no problems hopping on a bus and going.
I hope this will give you some idea. In a lot of ways, I do think I would be more confident in dealing with the public if I'd gone to public school.
While we're on the subject of cooking, I do want to add that, although they did teach the basics of cooking and cleaning at TSB, if I only did things the way they taught me, I wouldn't be able to do much. I remember once when I was about 12 years old, Mom was at work, and I was home alone. I wanted some Macaroni and cheese. I had no idea how to make it, but I'd talked to enough people to know how to boil macaroni. I filled up the pot, got the water boiling, dumped in the macaroni and stirred it and waited for it to get soft. I then realized that I had no clue what to do. I called my grandmother, who lived about 20 miles away and told her that I was craving mac and cheese, and that I had the macaroni on the stove boiling, and it was done. She kept trying to make me turn off the stove and leave the kitchen. I kept telling her that the macaroni was done, and I was not going to waiste it. She finally began to talk me through draining it, then putting milk and cheese in it. It wasn't bad for a first attempt. I sort of feel stupid posting that at one time, I didn't know how to make even mac and cheese. This is why I never laugh at anyone's accomplishment, no matter the size. I remember how proud I was that I actually made something on the stove, was able to eat it, it actually tasted good, and 24 years later, I'm still alive. LOL. One thing that seems to be on my side here though is that I'm not afraid of heat as a lot of blind people seem to be. When I fry potatos in the skillet, I put my fingers right in there with the taters. It won't burn you unless you put them so far down that you get oil on them, or touch the skillet and don't pull back very quickly. Another great tip is to keep a cup of icewater nearby, so you can quickly dip a burned finger into it. every good cook has burned itself at least once, and yes, this is true of sighted people as well. The reason I put my fingers in the skillet when I need to, is because when I stir and/or flip stuff, I want to know that it's brown enough. I can tell, pretty accurately by feel.
I went to a blind school through out most of high school, and i think I turned out ok. I do notice some of the kids who went there longer than me were a bit sheltered, and others turned out ok. Same with some of the new people. I was told that the education system in my state were not really supportive for blind people which is why so many end up at the blind school. They have a mainstream program which I really liked. I do find it sad that it was a very small group.
Some of the people with whom I went to school were extremely sheltered, and to this day, cannot live independantly. Some of this might well be the school's fault, or the fault of the parrents, I don't know. However, several of us from the school were on the phone, with the aid of 3way calling, discussing childhood. Those of us who are now independant did display signs of wanting to be independant from an early age. One of the stories my mother tells is that when I was little, she'd put me in the highchair, trying to get me to hurry up and eat, so she could take me to the babysitters, and then go on to work. well, of course, I had no concepts of the fact that she was in a hurry. I'd get down from the highchair and then start the laborious task of putting myself back into the highchair. I had to do it myself. Later, when I was older, I wanted to learn how to do the dishes and other things. I remember that my stepdad would bring these 5 gallon buckets of beans and corn in from the garden. My job was to shell and shuck. I'd do that, then I'd hear Mom in the kitchen, canning the stuff. I was fascinated. I wanted to learn how canning was done. I wouldn't leave her alone until she began teaching me. I guess that what I'm trying to say is that some people have a strong enough will and want to be independant, and some don't. Some people are perfectly satisfyed with sitting back and letting things be done for them. As much as we either praise or blame the school system, I don't think it could actually change a person's basic personality. Does any of this make any sense at all? I sure do hope so.
The last post makes perfect sense. It comes back to the old question of what is more important heredity or environment? This is a debate that will probably linger long after we've gone to great residential school, sumer program, or mainstream experience in the sky.
Lou
I think both are important. One person might be born with less of a desire to want to go out and try things, and that tendency is reinforced by parents who are afraid for their children's safety, or a school environment that shelters them and makes it hard for them to expect anything else. Or some people are born wanting to explore and make something of themselves, and their parents and others in their lives encourage it. See what I mean? The environment a person grows up in will more than likely reinforce the natural tendencies they were born with.
Hey, I agree that our parents affect the way we turn out to be as a person, but in spite of many difficulties such as parents, the environment you grew up in, the ineffective school system, and the unsupportive teachers and staff, you should have the desire to do well not for anyone but for yourself. It doesn’t matter whether a person is blind or sighted if he knows what he wants to do, where he wants to go, and the things he needs to accomplish in order to get there, he will. Though it may be hard and frustrating so many times, you have to make some mistakes to learn. I don’t like learned helplessness or letting a sighted person do everything for you. I know its very hard to not see any thing, but if you have a goal and a plan to get there, I’m pretty sure you will. I think the one thing that works for me most of the time is determination, discipline, and being confident about my abilities. If you have accomplished something, you should give credit to yourself and plan on your next step. I know some people don’t value graduating from college as much as others, but for me, I think, graduating is one of the few things you can give yourself that no one can ever steal. I know the reasoning that goes like this, why do I have to study when I can work and earn the same amount of money as much as those that graduated. Okay, lets say that you worked and got the same amount of money. When you get old and look back in your life, you will think to yourself, what have I given myself? Not including material things and such. I know its hard to get an education, but its rewarding because if you combine what you learn in school and with your real world experiences, in the long run, you’ll be more successful than most people. I know some people who just graduated and did not even use what they majored in their current job, but hey, at least you made an effort to better yourself. I know the saying that, you don’t learn everything in the classroom and I agree with it. I just hope that blind people will disregard their blindness and concentrate on what they can still do as a person. Hey, your just lacking an eye sight, you can still think for yourself and move around pretty well, so, I bet you can still do something that will improve you as a person and make you more independent and successful.
I agree that we need to use the provided services in our schools, but I don't agree with the people that take advantage of it too much to the point of being lazy. I don't like it when people make their blindness as an excuse for not doing anything. And there's also a difference between being realistic and having too much expectations for yourself without doing anything. I have a friend who wants to be a fire fighter, he is visually impaired, but he does not even know how to cross a street, so, how could he do the work of a fire fighter? Now, I'm not saying that its impossible, but he is not even doing anything to learn any skills related to what he wants, and besides, his eye sight is not good enough to determine locations, so, how can he do the job well? All am saying is that If you want something just make sure that you know your limitations and that you make an effort to learn the skills related to the job.
I agree wit the last post.
I think there are different ways to be successful. Just because you make more money doesn't make you more or less successful than the next person. It's about how happy you are in life and how close you came to accomplishing the things you wanted. If you go to college, that doesn't make you happier. Someone will be happiest in the job they really want. A lot of people are told that they should go to college just because it will make them better people. Well, it doesn't if that's not what they want.
ok, so I'm probably going to babble, and not sugar code things, so if I hurt your feelings, its not intentional. I was mainstreamed all through out school. I attended public school from k until 12, with little placements at the blind school in my area. These placements would last anywhere from 1 week to 4 months depending on what was being taught at the time. I would have the work that my classmates were doing brought with me, and my teachers at the school for the blind and mhy public school were always in contact to insure that the work was getting done. I learned how to use jaws there along with typing skills cooking skills mobility skills and so forth. They also taught us about budgeting and time management, and how to deal with sited peers. I felt this set up worked well for me. I would have never wanted to attend a blind schol for my whole life because I have seen no really great turn outs in that. Anyone I ever met personally has been socially awkward or have a lot of blindisms. I do agree with some peopel though, that it does not really depend on teh set up all of the time. I think its how you're raised. If you are raised by parents who send you away to a blind school basically to have them train you because the parents don't know how to, or don't choose to, then you don't always turn out well. That or the parents don't have high expectations for you because you are blind, and don't necessarely realize that you are completely capable of the same thingsa s your sited peers. I was very lucky in that my parents were the complete opposites of this. type of people. They treated me just like their other two daughters, and pushed me through school and made me do everything by myself. I am happy to say that I am currently in university 1.5 hours away from home, doing an honors degree in psychology. My b/f and I have an apartment in which we cook and clean by ourselves, and every few months or so when our family's visit or sited friends visit they will let us know if we have missed any spots on floors while cleaning, but other than that we do everything by ourselves. I spend my summers working for the government of Canada, and also have several other doors open for me. I think that mainstreaming with a mix of help and if you're lucky having decent parents who have deone the resaerch and expect a lot from you, you will do ok in life.
I'm not one who believes in the one-size-fits-all approach to blindness, life, or success for that matter. For one thing, is it just me, or do most people define success by things like money and status? If that's all there is to life, that seems a bit empty to me, but I could be wrong. I know people who are successful, at least they appear that way, and yet they hate most aspects of their lives. I also know people who might be considered loafers or losers just for being unemployed or not doing productive things, and yet they are happy with life and happy with themselves. I have only one big dream for all blind people. Don't bbe so hard on yourself, don't be so hard on your fellow blind people, and maybe, don't take yourself so seriously. Hahahahahaha!
Very well put.